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<pre><a name="l-1"></a><span class="tm">21:55:53</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#startmeeting </span><span class="cmdline">CentOS Board meeting - SIG proposals &amp; other business</span>
<a name="l-2"></a><span class="tm">21:55:53</span><span class="nk"> &lt;centbot&gt;</span> Meeting started Wed Apr  2 21:55:53 2014 UTC.  The chair is quaid. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
<a name="l-3"></a><span class="tm">21:55:53</span><span class="nk"> &lt;centbot&gt;</span> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
<a name="l-4"></a><span class="tm">21:56:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#chair </span><span class="cmdline">Evolution tru_tru range kbsingh hughesjr cctrieloff Arrfab</span>
<a name="l-5"></a><span class="tm">21:56:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;centbot&gt;</span> Current chairs: Arrfab Evolution cctrieloff hughesjr kbsingh quaid range tru_tru
<a name="l-6"></a><span class="tm">21:56:31</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> all users can use most of the actions, such as #info and #idea
<a name="l-7"></a><span class="tm">21:56:43</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> chairs can do the #agreed, not sure if #action is restricted
<a name="l-8"></a><span class="tm">21:56:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> anything before we jump in to the first topic?
<a name="l-9"></a><span class="tm">21:57:04</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> show of hands ?
<a name="l-10"></a><span class="tm">21:57:22 </span><span class="nka">* tru_tru</span> <span class="ac">raises hand</span>
<a name="l-11"></a><span class="tm">21:57:34 </span><span class="nka">* hughesjr</span> <span class="ac">shows his hand :D</span>
<a name="l-12"></a><span class="tm">21:57:53</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> here
<a name="l-13"></a><span class="tm">21:58:05</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> same here
<a name="l-14"></a><span class="tm">21:58:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> me too
<a name="l-15"></a><span class="tm">21:58:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> yep
<a name="l-16"></a><span class="tm">21:58:58</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">We have a quorum of Board members, safe to proceed :)</span>
<a name="l-17"></a><span class="tm">21:59:08</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> first topic is Desktop SIG?
<a name="l-18"></a><span class="tm">21:59:19</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> sure.
<a name="l-19"></a><span class="tm">21:59:20</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="topic">#topic </span><span class="topicline">Desktop SIG proposal</span>
<a name="l-20"></a><span class="tm">21:59:38</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> (channel title hasn't changed because centbot doesn't have ops, but it's changed in the log)
<a name="l-21"></a><span class="tm">21:59:51</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> also, you don't  need to use #link, just post the URL in the channel and it's the same thing
<a name="l-22"></a><span class="tm">22:01:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> you already started a discussion with smooge about a desktop SIG, right ? what's the status and so the "proposal" ?
<a name="l-23"></a><span class="tm">22:01:20</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> you proposed the desktop sig. want to lay out your ideas?
<a name="l-24"></a><span class="tm">22:01:24</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> I would like to propose a Desktop Special Interest Group that would cater towards alternative desktops to the main CentOS one.
<a name="l-25"></a><span class="tm">22:02:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> is the thought just to provide alternative desktops such as mate, or would you add additional 'desktop' style packages as well?
<a name="l-26"></a><span class="tm">22:02:24</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> Its main goal would be to make sure that working desktops that cater to other users needs are made available, tested, working and periodically updated
<a name="l-27"></a><span class="tm">22:02:57</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> my first goal would be to provide just alternate desktops and then from that gauge growth inot additional desktop style packages.
<a name="l-28"></a><span class="tm">22:03:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> s/inot/into/
<a name="l-29"></a><span class="tm">22:03:29</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> I would like to have an initial goal we can reach and build momentum from
<a name="l-30"></a><span class="tm">22:03:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> is the inital focus of this desktop for all active versions of CentOS or only for a specific CentOS
<a name="l-31"></a><span class="tm">22:04:43</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> My initial focus would be 7. The ability to build desktops to older releases will require extra effort and testing
<a name="l-32"></a><span class="tm">22:05:15</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> as the solutions may require some things like SCL's or other "we aren't replacing core stuff.. but we are." type solutions
<a name="l-33"></a><span class="tm">22:05:43</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> most desktop users seem to migrate to newer versions reasonably quickly
<a name="l-34"></a><span class="tm">22:05:44</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> are there other desktop-like activities you might include in the SIG other than alternative DEs and styling? for example, UX testing.
<a name="l-35"></a><span class="tm">22:05:56</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> and you have some kind of plan to make sure we are not running afowl of patent issues (like mp3)
<a name="l-36"></a><span class="tm">22:06:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> I apologize for the wishy washy ness of this. I want to get some questions answered so that I can better focus a finished proposal to you.
<a name="l-37"></a><span class="tm">22:06:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> do you see that as a "coordination" effort between existing desktop environments ? (for example EPEL providing already alternatives)
<a name="l-38"></a><span class="tm">22:06:41</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Arrfab:</span> I think part of it certainly should be.
<a name="l-39"></a><span class="tm">22:06:46</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> hughesjr, I do not plan to put anything in that could not be shipped in Fedora. Things like VLC etc will have to be done by an associated group which would not be troubled like I personally would be
<a name="l-40"></a><span class="tm">22:07:14</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> mate and cinnamon are already in epel. we should certainly appropriate that effort and help where we can.
<a name="l-41"></a><span class="tm">22:08:22</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> the items that will be a further focus is how to package these items for older releases. I would like to have it that people who need to develop/run EL5 could have a better experience but not replacing certain core items like glibc/gcc/kernel :)
<a name="l-42"></a><span class="tm">22:09:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> Arrfab, I see it as partially coordination. I am worried that EPEL may not be the best place for itmes which change every 6-12 months.
<a name="l-43"></a><span class="tm">22:09:57</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> are there other desktop-like activities you might include in the SIG other than alternative DEs and styling? for example, UX testing. -- alternately, I'm not asking if you'll do that work per se but if you are receptive to that work happening within the SIG? Is there a boundary where it's not SIG-relevant?
<a name="l-44"></a><span class="tm">22:10:05</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> If it turns out that EPEL is not the best place then it is on building the group which will be a better ground.
<a name="l-45"></a><span class="tm">22:11:10</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> quaid, to answer that I needed to reverse it. How strong a boundary is the board looking for SIGs to have.
<a name="l-46"></a><span class="tm">22:12:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> SIGs already have the ability to go higher in version for things that are part of even the "Core" OS .. so it would be fine for newer things that in EPEL they choose not to maintain a version that we need
<a name="l-47"></a><span class="tm">22:12:30</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> Well the EPEL issue is that it can't replace stuff that is in Core.
<a name="l-48"></a><span class="tm">22:12:39</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> right
<a name="l-49"></a><span class="tm">22:12:51</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> but the SIG can, if requried
<a name="l-50"></a><span class="tm">22:13:56</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> so epel for some things, and then possibly a 'desktop' repository or whatever for things not suited for epel, but maitained by the sig
<a name="l-51"></a><span class="tm">22:14:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> so my question was "Is the board looking for well defined boundaries that a SIG has in place from the beginning" or is it wanting a lose rule of thumb
<a name="l-52"></a><span class="tm">22:14:04</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> it's a fair question you reversed to -- we're interested in it being a wider focus, so "Mate SIG" isn't right, but "Desktop SIG that includes Mate" is ... at that point, the boundary should be what the SIG wants to support and thinks their community needs
<a name="l-53"></a><span class="tm">22:14:30</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> I think loose rule of thumb is better, let it grow organically
<a name="l-54"></a><span class="tm">22:14:39</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> WRT the board question about SIGs, we will have at least one board member in the SIG ... so we will give SIGs as much lattitude as possible
<a name="l-55"></a><span class="tm">22:14:43</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> I was mainly curious if you saw that in the future (cf. styling) or thought it was out of scope
<a name="l-56"></a><span class="tm">22:14:50</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> also is the board wanting me to do a PRD or similar tools to have ready as a full fleshed proposal
<a name="l-57"></a><span class="tm">22:15:09</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> you can use the existing proposals as a template, but yes, we do want something concrete to vote on
<a name="l-58"></a><span class="tm">22:15:48</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> quaid, I haven't been presented with any examples of items yet for desktop tools that weren't redlines (VLC, mp3 plugins, etc)
<a name="l-59"></a><span class="tm">22:15:55</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> so I can't answer clearly yet
<a name="l-60"></a><span class="tm">22:17:26</span><span class="nk"> &lt;cctrieloff&gt;</span> I'm here but distracted.
<a name="l-61"></a><span class="tm">22:17:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> can someone send me a link for an existing SIG? I will work from that and have something for you asap
<a name="l-62"></a><span class="tm">22:18:00</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/CloudInstance
<a name="l-63"></a><span class="tm">22:18:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> unless kbsingh has a better one.
<a name="l-64"></a><span class="tm">22:18:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> okie dokie
<a name="l-65"></a><span class="tm">22:18:18</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> strip CloudInstance off for a list of others.
<a name="l-66"></a><span class="tm">22:18:46</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">current boundaries for the SIG are to include alternate desktop environments (DEs) with the future expansion in to styling</span>
<a name="l-67"></a><span class="tm">22:18:58</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> based on your email to the list, I roughed out http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/AlternativeDesktop but it needs some work.
<a name="l-68"></a><span class="tm">22:19:21</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">a SIG boundary is to not include non-open source nor software with potential or real legal issues</span>
<a name="l-69"></a><span class="tm">22:19:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> thats it
<a name="l-70"></a><span class="tm">22:19:56</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> Evolution, thank you.
<a name="l-71"></a><span class="tm">22:20:05</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">SIG may carry packages that are later than what is in EPEL if it feels the need</span>
<a name="l-72"></a><span class="tm">22:21:44</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> I would like to be able to let interested people work on unified theming etc.. but there will be no 'forced' theming (eg people who want alternative desktops usually do their desktops there way thank you very much.)
<a name="l-73"></a><span class="tm">22:22:21</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> i missed if this is going to only target el7 or el6 as well ?
<a name="l-74"></a><span class="tm">22:22:42</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">kbsingh:</span> 7 to start. 6 if interest/time permists.
<a name="l-75"></a><span class="tm">22:22:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> iirc
<a name="l-76"></a><span class="tm">22:23:00</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> kbsingh, I am initially going to focus on el7. The el6 may require me to use software collections or similar tools which I need to study more before I give a I will do that.
<a name="l-77"></a><span class="tm">22:23:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> If others are willing I am up with doing 6 and 5.
<a name="l-78"></a><span class="tm">22:23:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> does that make sense?
<a name="l-79"></a><span class="tm">22:23:34</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> sure
<a name="l-80"></a><span class="tm">22:25:00</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> My main rules on 'desktops' and such being supported is that they will be shipped as long as people are willing to work on them. I don't want abandon ware (eg tvtwm compiles.. good enough)
<a name="l-81"></a><span class="tm">22:25:00</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">target for CentOS 7* to start, back to CentOS 6* as time and interest permits</span>
<a name="l-82"></a><span class="tm">22:26:12</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> When is the next board meeting?
<a name="l-83"></a><span class="tm">22:26:36</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> week after next.
<a name="l-84"></a><span class="tm">22:27:28</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> OK I will make sure I have a finished document with you guys by next wednessday and will work with Evolution and dan408 on it
<a name="l-85"></a><span class="tm">22:27:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> are there any other questions?
<a name="l-86"></a><span class="tm">22:27:56</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> leigh expressed a passing interest as well (as the cinnamon maintainer)
<a name="l-87"></a><span class="tm">22:28:26</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> how is this going to layer on top of EPEL ?
<a name="l-88"></a><span class="tm">22:28:37</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> i mean, a chunk of the work might actually be possible to get done there right ?
<a name="l-89"></a><span class="tm">22:28:49</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">kbsingh:</span> some is done there, yes.
<a name="l-90"></a><span class="tm">22:28:57</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> mate/cinnamon exist there already
<a name="l-91"></a><span class="tm">22:28:58</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> ( apart from when $person wants something newer, they can fork it - but will that code then be forked in git.fedora or git.centos )
<a name="l-92"></a><span class="tm">22:30:38</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> kbsingh, I believe the initial work can be done in EPEL. However if the changes to later versions are invasive etc then it will need changes in either how EPEL is structured or a different build infrastructure.
<a name="l-93"></a><span class="tm">22:30:55</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> kbsingh, in that case I would be working on making that happen.
<a name="l-94"></a><span class="tm">22:31:02</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> hey
<a name="l-95"></a><span class="tm">22:31:08</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> sorry i got dragged out
<a name="l-96"></a><span class="tm">22:31:23 </span><span class="nka">* dan408</span> <span class="ac">reads scrollback</span>
<a name="l-97"></a><span class="tm">22:31:48</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> kbsingh, in the case where it wouldn't work for EPEL (say Mate in EL5) but could be done via a different packaging system then we would work on solving that problem
<a name="l-98"></a><span class="tm">22:32:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> ok
<a name="l-99"></a><span class="tm">22:32:24</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> so essentially : fix problems as we see them - there is flexibility from packager and buildsystem side. epel to bootstrap into
<a name="l-100"></a><span class="tm">22:33:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> correct. I expect we will need to change over time, but to meet a can we have a solution in 3-6 months the proven existing method to start from.
<a name="l-101"></a><span class="tm">22:35:10</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> so the biggest roadblock I'm personally seeing is getting Anaconda to read directly from EPEL for yum groups
<a name="l-102"></a><span class="tm">22:35:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> is there any drive to also maintain some part of the docs aronud this on say wiki.centos.org/blah/howto/desktops
<a name="l-103"></a><span class="tm">22:35:12</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> <span class="hi">smooge:</span> that sounds good to me .. but indeed some choices will have to be made, like for example if CentOS 7 32bits becomes real
<a name="l-104"></a><span class="tm">22:35:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> or is the focus purely on delivering rpms, let the community at large do that
<a name="l-105"></a><span class="tm">22:35:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> I just finished building the MATE stack of packages on EPEL
<a name="l-106"></a><span class="tm">22:35:54</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dan408:</span> anaconda... should be fairly simple, with an add-repo at install time right ?
<a name="l-107"></a><span class="tm">22:36:28</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">kbsingh:</span> well ideally EPEL would just be there out of the box, and you would see MATE as a choice of available desktops
<a name="l-108"></a><span class="tm">22:37:12</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> so for example you choose "desktop" and then you can pick Gnome, KDE, or Cinnamon, etc
<a name="l-109"></a><span class="tm">22:37:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> that shouldnt be hard to do - but how many groups does EPEL host ? we'd have a minor flood
<a name="l-110"></a><span class="tm">22:37:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> otherwise you end up having to install Gnome or KDE and then MATE or cinnamon
<a name="l-111"></a><span class="tm">22:37:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> I'm pretty sure Anaconda can handle it
<a name="l-112"></a><span class="tm">22:37:50</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> kbsingh, I would like to make sure that we have guides and howtos as part of any 'desktop' solution added. If only on how one logs out, finds certain apps etc.
<a name="l-113"></a><span class="tm">22:38:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> honestly I think we might consider just stealing the groups we want from epel, and then adding epel-release as a mandatory package for the desktop spin
<a name="l-114"></a><span class="tm">22:38:14</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> that would limit the groups visible in anaconda.
<a name="l-115"></a><span class="tm">22:39:03</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> as long as they are responsive to updates
<a name="l-116"></a><span class="tm">22:39:09</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> wait what do you mean spin?
<a name="l-117"></a><span class="tm">22:39:24</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> I had not thought about spins per se at the moment. For me it is a "if I have the time"... unless that is a required SIG deliverable.
<a name="l-118"></a><span class="tm">22:39:46</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> I was thinking netinstall/DVD not spin
<a name="l-119"></a><span class="tm">22:40:18</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> or just DVD I don't think you guys do a netinstall do you
<a name="l-120"></a><span class="tm">22:40:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> so no ISO compose?
<a name="l-121"></a><span class="tm">22:40:38</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> wll
<a name="l-122"></a><span class="tm">22:40:39</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> well, the core provided by the core sig won't change.
<a name="l-123"></a><span class="tm">22:40:39</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> well
<a name="l-124"></a><span class="tm">22:40:40</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> minimal install is the most popular download iirc, it's basically a netinstall isn't it?
<a name="l-125"></a><span class="tm">22:40:51</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> no
<a name="l-126"></a><span class="tm">22:41:12</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> so i'm coming from the Fedora side so I may be a little bit confused
<a name="l-127"></a><span class="tm">22:41:22</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> but on Fedora side you can install anything with a 200mb iso image
<a name="l-128"></a><span class="tm">22:41:23</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dan408:</span> we do netinstalls, as well as minimals and something similar to boot.fedora
<a name="l-129"></a><span class="tm">22:41:28 </span><span class="nka">* quaid</span> <span class="ac">a bit lost in terminology too</span>
<a name="l-130"></a><span class="tm">22:41:28</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> right
<a name="l-131"></a><span class="tm">22:41:49</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> okay
<a name="l-132"></a><span class="tm">22:42:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;wolfy&gt;</span> <span class="hi">quaid:</span> the minimal.iso bypasses the package selection step and installs @base . all the needed packages are included in the iso
<a name="l-133"></a><span class="tm">22:42:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> however for a desktop side, I would think some folks would want a usb/iso based install for a desktop
<a name="l-134"></a><span class="tm">22:42:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;tru_tru&gt;</span> why just not a desktop-SIG.repo or repo --name=desktop-SIG --baseurl=http:// --cost=XXX ?
<a name="l-135"></a><span class="tm">22:42:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> for the DVD it wouldnt work if you didnt have a network connection
<a name="l-136"></a><span class="tm">22:42:23</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> if the work is done in a contained repo, regardless of how the install starts, its all just a case of adding the repo line, comps will get parsed and options show up in the gui
<a name="l-137"></a><span class="tm">22:42:26</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">tru_tru:</span> entirely doable as well.
<a name="l-138"></a><span class="tm">22:42:34</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dan408:</span> right. which is why I was thinking spin.
<a name="l-139"></a><span class="tm">22:42:53</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">kbsingh:</span> true
<a name="l-140"></a><span class="tm">22:42:59</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> in the past, when we have had alternative desktops (ie xfce on 5 and 4 :D) we did yum groups in a repo ... that will also work
<a name="l-141"></a><span class="tm">22:43:02</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> we can also ship an additional repo on the DVD ( if it fits! ) with the repo line disabled and a media:/// url
<a name="l-142"></a><span class="tm">22:43:21</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> well I guess that would be easier and accomplish the goal of a) not having to change base and b) being able to install the desktop you want without having to install a desktop you dont want
<a name="l-143"></a><span class="tm">22:43:46</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> it does not need to end up in the os/ directory, and it need not be enabled by force, but just a checkbox to enable it from DVD might be a great option
<a name="l-144"></a><span class="tm">22:43:51</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="hi">wolfy:</span> thanks
<a name="l-145"></a><span class="tm">22:43:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> the trick is going to be making it fit
<a name="l-146"></a><span class="tm">22:43:57</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dan408:</span> minimal install and yum grops cando that too :)
<a name="l-147"></a><span class="tm">22:43:57</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">hughesjr:</span> what if you wanted to install xfce on a fresh install?
<a name="l-148"></a><span class="tm">22:44:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">hughesjr:</span> no
<a name="l-149"></a><span class="tm">22:44:30</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">hughesjr:</span> Say I want to put media in choose xfce, and install once and be done
<a name="l-150"></a><span class="tm">22:45:09</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> your process is a 2 step process
<a name="l-151"></a><span class="tm">22:45:18</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dan408:</span> you can create a specific DVD for that too in the SIG
<a name="l-152"></a><span class="tm">22:45:33</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">hughesjr:</span> Right that's what we're discussing with spins
<a name="l-153"></a><span class="tm">22:46:00</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> alright
<a name="l-154"></a><span class="tm">22:46:15</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> this is gunna require some hacking but
<a name="l-155"></a><span class="tm">22:46:48</span><span class="nk"> &lt;hughesjr&gt;</span> I was just pointing out that an ISO is not the only alternative .. but the SIGs can do that too
<a name="l-156"></a><span class="tm">22:47:22</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> ultimately the SIG needs to chose delivery methods that make sense for it's community, these questions are somewhat about what the rest of us think makes sense ...
<a name="l-157"></a><span class="tm">22:48:02</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> i guess if it worked like this: 1) User downloads CentOS 7 MATE spin which can be burnt to CD or written to USB 2) User boots spin, starts Anaconda installer 3) Anaconda functiosn in the exact same way as the DVD or netinstall and can install the same things .. so user chooses say base, standard and "web server", chooses partitioning and hits "install". What they should end up with is a MATE desktop with the options they picked
<a name="l-158"></a><span class="tm">22:48:45</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> right.
<a name="l-159"></a><span class="tm">22:48:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> Again, I don't know if this is possible with the current anaconda
<a name="l-160"></a><span class="tm">22:49:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;kbsingh&gt;</span> right guys, i need to rebase over. thanks
<a name="l-161"></a><span class="tm">22:49:28</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> I don't see why it wouldn't be. it's similar to whate fedora's done with it in the last couple releases.
<a name="l-162"></a><span class="tm">22:49:46</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dan408:</span> I haven't looked at anaconda from 7 (yet) but I guess using the updates.img still works for that
<a name="l-163"></a><span class="tm">22:49:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> I've got to bail in about 5 minutes as well
<a name="l-164"></a><span class="tm">22:50:03</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> Not necessarily. On a spin you just hit "install" and it installs whatever was included with the spin. You don't get to pick any additional options
<a name="l-165"></a><span class="tm">22:50:31</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> ah, fair enough.
<a name="l-166"></a><span class="tm">22:50:45</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Arrfab:</span> Sure. I'm no anaconda expert here but I'm just throwing this stuff out there
<a name="l-167"></a><span class="tm">22:50:46</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#action </span><span class="cmdline">smooge to work up a formal proposal</span>
<a name="l-168"></a><span class="tm">22:51:57</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#action </span><span class="cmdline">SIG needs to consider what release formats to use (ISO, netinstall, all-in-one-spins, etc.)</span>
<a name="l-169"></a><span class="tm">22:51:57</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> That's why I'm thinking there might be some hacking needed because these packages are already in Fedora base.
<a name="l-170"></a><span class="tm">22:52:12</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dan408:</span> we'll have to have a deep look into anaconda to also combine all the groups/variants into one (like we did for centos 6) so I'm sure that once it will be mastered, it will be easy to modify it again for each SIG respin
<a name="l-171"></a><span class="tm">22:52:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Arrfab:</span> +1
<a name="l-172"></a><span class="tm">22:52:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dan408:</span> yeah. I'm starting to see what you mean.
<a name="l-173"></a><span class="tm">22:52:36</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> cool
<a name="l-174"></a><span class="tm">22:52:45</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> fwiw, I'm comfortable with usinage latest bits in Fedora as upstream that we pull in to git.centos.org (if I'm thinking correctly here); Fedora (and EPEL) are trustworthy upstreams
<a name="l-175"></a><span class="tm">22:52:59</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> The easiest thing is just to import the packages to base, but I completely understand that you don't want to change base.
<a name="l-176"></a><span class="tm">22:53:26</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> And that's fine, but workarounds are needed. :D
<a name="l-177"></a><span class="tm">22:53:33</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#idea </span><span class="cmdline">project wide work on Anaconda to fold in all groups/variants will help the Desktop SIG needs for respins, etc.</span>
<a name="l-178"></a><span class="tm">22:53:40</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> yeah. we'll have to figure that out. base won't change.
<a name="l-179"></a><span class="tm">22:54:37</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> Right. Well I'm glad I was able to help put everyone on the same page on how it should be presented to the end user for installation
<a name="l-180"></a><span class="tm">22:55:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> I mean that's how I'd want it personally
<a name="l-181"></a><span class="tm">22:55:19</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> yeah but the desktop sig proposal we have here is quite different from the cloud/storage ones in a sense that we'd build packages with the same key (or alternate key but still from our side) while the idea seems to be here to just consume packages built/signed by EPEL
<a name="l-182"></a><span class="tm">22:55:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Arrfab:</span> that's the initial starting point, but by no means the end goal.
<a name="l-183"></a><span class="tm">22:55:56</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Arrfab:</span> it's a little bit more than that
<a name="l-184"></a><span class="tm">22:56:04</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Evolution&gt;</span> anyway, off for family. bbiab
<a name="l-185"></a><span class="tm">22:56:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> cya Evolution
<a name="l-186"></a><span class="tm">22:56:34</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> ok, I'm ready to close out as we are runnning out of Board members and the sponsor just left :)
<a name="l-187"></a><span class="tm">22:56:38</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> anything else for the record?
<a name="l-188"></a><span class="tm">22:56:41</span><span class="nk"> &lt;tru_tru&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Evolution:</span> ciao
<a name="l-189"></a><span class="tm">22:56:45 </span><span class="nka">* quaid</span> <span class="ac">will close in 60 seconds otherwise</span>
<a name="l-190"></a><span class="tm">22:56:56</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#idea </span><span class="cmdline">discuss about respins using packages not built on centos infra and so not signed by us</span>
<a name="l-191"></a><span class="tm">22:57:00</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> btw, dan408, good to see ya
<a name="l-192"></a><span class="tm">22:57:04</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> For the record: The entire MATE stack is finished building and I'm going to add a group in to EPEL7 for comps
<a name="l-193"></a><span class="tm">22:57:09</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> <span class="hi">quaid:</span> good to see you too
<a name="l-194"></a><span class="tm">22:57:19</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Arrfab:</span> yeah, we need to really consider that around EPEL in general, right?
<a name="l-195"></a><span class="tm">22:57:48</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> <span class="hi">quaid:</span> yeah, EPEL or other repositories too I guess.
<a name="l-196"></a><span class="tm">22:59:14</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> I am ok with closing.
<a name="l-197"></a><span class="tm">22:59:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me here (I prefer IRC over email)
<a name="l-198"></a><span class="tm">22:59:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> dan408, smooge : what about starting as a documentation on how to install those packages from epel on a running c7. then we'd have to see how to respin specific medias and in the meantime we'll have discussed the "do we rebuild/sign those packages or do we just import those" question
<a name="l-199"></a><span class="tm">22:59:35</span><span class="nk"> &lt;cctrieloff&gt;</span> thx
<a name="l-200"></a><span class="tm">23:00:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> okie dokie.
<a name="l-201"></a><span class="tm">23:00:14</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> sure thing I'll work with smooge on that.
<a name="l-202"></a><span class="tm">23:00:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;Arrfab&gt;</span> thanks everyone for the meeting
<a name="l-203"></a><span class="tm">23:00:22</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dan408&gt;</span> thanks for hosting!
<a name="l-204"></a><span class="tm">23:07:18</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> quaid, remember to #endmeeting
<a name="l-205"></a><span class="tm">23:08:03 </span><span class="nka">* quaid</span> <span class="ac">was distracted, thanks</span>
<a name="l-206"></a><span class="tm">23:08:10</span><span class="nk"> &lt;smooge&gt;</span> np
<a name="l-207"></a><span class="tm">23:08:10</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> typical!
<a name="l-208"></a><span class="tm">23:08:18</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> going in 5
<a name="l-209"></a><span class="tm">23:08:20</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> 4
<a name="l-210"></a><span class="tm">23:08:21</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> 3
<a name="l-211"></a><span class="tm">23:08:24</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> 2
<a name="l-212"></a><span class="tm">23:08:24</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> 1
<a name="l-213"></a><span class="tm">23:08:36</span><span class="nk"> &lt;quaid&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#endmeeting</span><span class="cmdline"></span></pre>