diff --git a/lib/sqlalchemy/sql/util.py b/lib/sqlalchemy/sql/util.py

index 3077840..8719b26 100644

--- a/lib/sqlalchemy/sql/util.py

+++ b/lib/sqlalchemy/sql/util.py

@@ -20,6 +20,7 @@ from .annotation import _shallow_annotate  # noqa

 from .base import _from_objects

 from .base import ColumnSet

 from .ddl import sort_tables  # noqa

+from .elements import _expand_cloned

 from .elements import _find_columns  # noqa

 from .elements import _label_reference

 from .elements import _textual_label_reference

@@ -149,6 +150,16 @@ def find_left_clause_to_join_from(clauses, join_to, onclause):

                 idx.append(i)

                 break

+    if len(idx) > 1:

+        # this is the same "hide froms" logic from

+        # Selectable._get_display_froms

+        toremove = set(

+            chain(*[_expand_cloned(f._hide_froms) for f in clauses])

+        )

+        idx = [

+            i for i in idx if clauses[i] not in toremove

+        ]

+

     # onclause was given and none of them resolved, so assume

     # all indexes can match

     if not idx and onclause is not None:

diff --git a/test/orm/test_joins.py b/test/orm/test_joins.py

index bb9747c..4fe04f7 100644

--- a/test/orm/test_joins.py

+++ b/test/orm/test_joins.py

@@ -1559,6 +1559,81 @@ class JoinTest(QueryTest, AssertsCompiledSQL):

             "ON dingalings.address_id = addresses_1.id",

         )

+    def test_clause_present_in_froms_twice_w_onclause(self):

+        # test [ticket:4584]

+        Order, Address, Dingaling, User = (

+            self.classes.Order,

+            self.classes.Address,

+            self.classes.Dingaling,

+            self.classes.User,

+        )

+

+        sess = create_session()

+

+        a1 = aliased(Address)

+

+        q = sess.query(Order).select_from(Order, a1, User)

+        assert_raises_message(

+            sa.exc.InvalidRequestError,

+            "Can't determine which FROM clause to join from, there are "

+            "multiple FROMS which can join to this entity. "

+            "Try adding an explicit ON clause to help resolve the ambiguity.",

+            q.outerjoin,

+            a1,

+        )

+

+        # the condition which occurs here is: Query._from_obj contains both

+        # "a1" by itself as well as a join that "a1" is part of.

+        # find_left_clause_to_join_from() needs to include removal of froms

+        # that are in the _hide_froms of joins the same way

+        # Selectable._get_display_froms does.

+        q = sess.query(Order).select_from(Order, a1, User)

+        q = q.outerjoin(a1, a1.id == Order.address_id)

+        q = q.outerjoin(User, a1.user_id == User.id)

+

+        self.assert_compile(

+            q,

+            "SELECT orders.id AS orders_id, orders.user_id AS orders_user_id, "

+            "orders.address_id AS orders_address_id, "

+            "orders.description AS orders_description, "

+            "orders.isopen AS orders_isopen "

+            "FROM orders "

+            "LEFT OUTER JOIN addresses AS addresses_1 "

+            "ON addresses_1.id = orders.address_id "

+            "LEFT OUTER JOIN users ON addresses_1.user_id = users.id",

+        )

+

+    def test_clause_present_in_froms_twice_wo_onclause(self):

+        # test [ticket:4584]

+        Order, Address, Dingaling, User = (

+            self.classes.Order,

+            self.classes.Address,

+            self.classes.Dingaling,

+            self.classes.User,

+        )

+

+        sess = create_session()

+

+        a1 = aliased(Address)

+

+        # the condition which occurs here is: Query._from_obj contains both

+        # "a1" by itself as well as a join that "a1" is part of.

+        # find_left_clause_to_join_from() needs to include removal of froms

+        # that are in the _hide_froms of joins the same way

+        # Selectable._get_display_froms does.

+        q = sess.query(User).select_from(Dingaling, a1, User)

+        q = q.outerjoin(a1, User.id == a1.user_id)

+        q = q.outerjoin(Dingaling)

+

+        self.assert_compile(

+            q,

+            "SELECT users.id AS users_id, users.name AS users_name "

+            "FROM users LEFT OUTER JOIN addresses AS addresses_1 "

+            "ON users.id = addresses_1.user_id "

+            "LEFT OUTER JOIN dingalings "

+            "ON addresses_1.id = dingalings.address_id",

+        )

+

     def test_multiple_adaption(self):

         Item, Order, User = (

             self.classes.Item,